Did Christ bear the punishment for our sin?

This is the title of the seminar that I am leading soon. I am arguing for the side of Penal Substitution. Note, this debate is not about whether PS is the ONLY motif of the atonement, but whether PS is actually true at all.

Naturally, this question springs from Steve Chalke's book "The Lost Message of Jesus" and the surrounding debate within Evangelical circles in the UK. However Chalke's book is hardly the start of the questioning of PS. Many before Chalke questioned this doctrine and many have joined with Chalke in denying it.

I still have plenty of reading to do in order to solidify my case for PS and even more to find out what the objections are in order that I may refute them in my opening talk.

Mormons?

I was just talking with a Mormon chap. He was very nice (see earlier blog entry).

However it struck me that, whilst we were talking about theology, we really could not have a debate about it at all. It would be rather like my debating theology with somebody who believes in little green men from Mars. Their doctrines are so, well, ridiculous that there really quite simply isn't any room for debate, doing so it tantamount to madness.

Irenaeus said, talking about Gnostic doctrines that he refuted in his work Against Heresies that to simply describe some of these doctrines is to utterly refute them as they are so ridiculous.

Nevertheless, some good men do debate Mormons over their beliefs and I believe that their work is important and furthers the cause of the gospel.

The "God is nice" Church?

During quite a good chat on #prosapologian (an IRC channel for reformed chat) the other day somebody who had connected and was reading the conversation said this:

<*****> Oh my. I am from a God is nice church ... this is too much for me. I'm going.

What is a "God is nice" church? This is what dictionary.com thinks the word 'nice' means:

1.	pleasing; agreeable; delightful: a nice visit.

2.	amiably pleasant; kind: They are always nice to strangers.

So their church believes that our Holy God is "pleasing; agreeable; delightful;amiable pleasant; kind".

Where is the space for:

Judge
Psalm 96:13
The Lord: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth.

Here is what Nahum the prophet wrote of this 'nice' God:

God's Wrath Against Nineveh

2 The Lord is a jealous and avenging God;
the Lord is avenging and wrathful;
the Lord takes vengeance on his adversaries
and keeps wrath for his enemies.
3 The Lord is slow to anger and great in power,
and the Lord will by no means clear the guilty.
His way is in whirlwind and storm,
and the clouds are the dust of his feet.
4 He rebukes the sea and makes it dry;
he dries up all the rivers;
Bashan and Carmel wither;
the bloom of Lebanon withers.
5 The mountains quake before him;
the hills melt;
the earth heaves before him,
the world and all who dwell in it.

6 Who can stand before his indignation?
Who can endure the heat of his anger?
His wrath is poured out like fire,
and the rocks are broken into pieces by him.
7 The Lord is good,
a stronghold in the day of trouble;
he knows those who take refuge in him.
8 But with an overflowing flood
he will make a complete end of the adversaries, [1]
and will pursue his enemies into darkness.
9 What do you plot against the Lord?
He will make a complete end;
trouble will not rise up a second time.
10 For they are like entangled thorns,
like drunkards as they drink;
they are consumed like stubble fully dried.
11 From you came one
who plotted evil against the Lord,
a worthless counselor.

12 Thus says the Lord,
“Though they are at full strength and many,
they will be cut down and pass away.
Though I have afflicted you,
I will afflict you no more.
13 And now I will break his yoke from off you
and will burst your bonds apart.”

14 The Lord has given commandment about you:
“No more shall your name be perpetuated;
from the house of your gods I will cut off
the carved image and the metal image.
I will make your grave, for you are vile.”

15 [2] Behold, upon the mountains, the feet of him
who brings good news,
who publishes peace!
Keep your feasts, O Judah;
fulfill your vows,
for never again shall the worthless pass through you;
he is utterly cut off.

No wonder she left the chat room!